Before running became a central part of his identity, music had already shaped the way he moved through the world. As a DJ, he understood rhythm as a language: something that passes through the body, gathers people together, and turns musical notes into shared energy. Behind the decks, as on a trail run, he found an almost trance-like state, surrounded by people, yet deeply alone inside the act of listening and moving.

Running entered his life later, but eventually became another way of composing. A way to reorder himself. To move away from the noise of nightlife and toward a different kind of intensity—one built through long distance and nature.

In this conversation, running is seen not merely as an athletic discipline, but as sound, image, escape, and, ultimately, a creative act. It’s a way to translate one’s essence into movement and to share it without necessarily needing to explain it—just like music.

What kind of life you were living before running became something really central to your identity and your life?

“I was in a sports school in Germany, and I did sports when I was younger. I did triathlons through school. I could have played basketball, football, which in Germany is the most common thing. I don’t really know why—maybe because I already had a road bike—but one of the teachers asked me if I wanted to do an international triathlon. So I did that even if at that time I hated everything about it. Now I think it was actually pretty cool, but back then I really didn’t enjoy it.

During that same period, I found skateboarding and snowboarding, so I didn’t really continue doing what we would call ‘traditional sports’ for a long time. Then, through skateboarding, I got into DJing, and I did that for many years. I drank a lot during that time, I did drugs, and I was fully immersed in all the nightlife stuff. When my son was born shortly after, I gained a lot of weight because I was basically either at home with the kid or DJing and drinking, so it definitely wasn’t a balanced life. That’s when I decided that what I was doing was simply not sustainable.

First, I got back into cycling a lot. Then I had more kids, and I didn’t really have the time for cycling anymore. During winter, I switched to running because it was more convenient. It wasn’t as time-consuming. I really hated it at first. I remember doing a 10K with my stepdad in something like 55 minutes, wearing Nike Air Max shoes, and I was dying. After that, I thought that running was definitely nothing for me. But then the competitive nature kicks in. We signed up for more races. I progressed, I got faster, and it developed from 10Ks to half marathons, then marathons, then ultramarathons. And suddenly, people who knew me after that period only knew me as the runner guy. And for a lot of people, if you asked them who I am, I would still be the drunk DJ guy, which is always really funny.”

Do you think that, in a way, running saved you?

“Definitely. You never really know what would have happened otherwise. Maybe I would have been fine continuing as a DJ, but I think for me, and for my family, it definitely saved me.

Through getting sober in that process, not drinking anymore, and through having different values in life and different priorities, running definitely made me much more aware. Also in private life, at home, with food choices, environmental choices. I was never really a career seeker, but now even more, I would rather earn a lot less money and be free to do what I want to do, than have a lot of money and be constantly stressed about work. So it really changed the focus. When you start to run a lot, you have a lot of time to think. And I think that was really necessary for me, because before it was all just really fast, not much thinking. I kind of worried other people as well. Through running, I became the governor of my life again.”

Was there a moment when basically running was no longer just movement or exercise, but it became something deeper—an exploration, something where you could put yourself into it and find new emotions, new motivations?

“I think the longer the distances became and the more I moved away from traditional road running, the more time I started spending inside my own head. After a while, I realised that I actually need that time where I can just be in my head. My wife always says I should go for a run when I haven’t run for a while. Furthermore, through trail running, I start seeing a lot of beautiful places in nature. I get more into things like mountaineering—how to get higher, how to get further, how to become more self-sufficient. That’s why now I’m planning more and more adventure runs where there is no finish line—just the experience.

Even the connections you make with other people on trails, or during those longer runs, are incredibly deep. It’s a kind of connection that doesn’t really happen that much in a half marathon because everything is so fast. There, it’s really just you. On trail runs, there’s a different kind of camaraderie. I think that helped me in life in general—to trust other people more, or sometimes to step away from people. If you have a bad feeling when you’re on the mountain, you should not continue. You should go back down and save it for another day. And I think in life, often we do a lot of things that we think we have to do, when actually taking a step back and looking at it from the outside would help. Through being out in nature, you’re able to take that step back because you realise how small we are in the world. I don’t think you get that in a normal 9-to-5 job.”

Probably in trail running specifically, running stops being only endurance and starts becoming something more existential?

“There’s a need to go out. Often people ask me how I find motivation to go out when it rains. But it’s not really motivation-driven. It’s just that I want to be out there. When I look at some friends of mine and they don’t do anything on a Sunday other than staying at home, I honestly have no idea how they do that. For me, it’s impossible. When I’m sick and I have to stay at home for three days, I feel like the world is going to end. Once you start living an active lifestyle, it stays with you every day.”

Music and running are both deeply physical, repetitive, and almost trance-like in their own way. Do you see a connection between being behind the decks and being alone in motion for hours?

“When you’re DJing you’re always the first at the venue and the last one to leave. So social connections aren’t really there in the way people imagine. Trail running is just another context. Even in skateboarding, technically a solo sport, you would never skateboard seven days a week completely on your own. There always needs to be a human connection.

In trail running, I do a lot of runs on my own, but I also call people to share the experience. And I think DJing is very similar. You get a reaction from the crowd when you play something good. I think it’s the same when you run in a group. You choose a route, you bring your friends there for the first time, and you hope for their good reaction. At the end of the day, it’s just movement and nature. It’s about everything that moves you. That’s why I started ‘Physical Recreation Services.’ It’s really about experiences with friends, and it’s not only running or trail running. It can be anything recreational. It’s a way to connect to people through your own lens. 

With DJing, the way you link songs together is also your way of letting people into your soul, which is technically very private, but at the same time, you have the urge to share it. During trail runs, you often have really deep conversations with people you’ve never met before, just because you’re both running in the same direction and you feel that kind of connection. You end up telling them things that sometimes your best friends don’t even know, simply because you’ve never been in the right situation to share them. And through music, I think you share a lot of deep emotions as well with others in the club. It’s all connected. That’s why I’m drawn to all of it.”

Another parallel is that both running and music also have this strong sense of rhythm and atmosphere. As a runner, do you think the way you run—the way you approach rhythm and pace—is shaped somehow by your ear for music?

“I think running is an art form. It’s like music. Sometimes you want to listen to lo-fi jazz, and the next day you want heavy metal. The way I choose my routes is also completely dependent on the mood of the day. Sometimes I just want to shut my brain off and run flat for one hour. Then another day I pack my bag, my poles, and I want to climb as many hills as possible. Through the way you choose your route, you also kind of dictate your mood. 

When I run the same route, it triggers different feelings every time because every day something different has happened in nature. And I think music works the same way. You can listen to a song a million times, and suddenly you notice a different part, something you never actively heard before. Then, there are certain songs I can listen to forever, and they will always give me the same memories and emotions. Once you start running for a while, you begin searching for that same ‘at-home’ feeling. That moment where everything eases in.”

Today’s running culture is more visible than ever — social media, influencers, content, gear, aesthetics. What excites you about this moment, and what worries you? 

“I started running 14 years ago, and even back then people were already saying that running was booming so much, wondering if it would completely change. At that time, you had very specific niche brands, and then all the big brands started coming in. But for me, it never really changes, because I can still run the way I want to run. I don’t have to buy into the next Instagram or TikTok trend that comes up. I can simply follow the people I want and decide how I want to experience running. In general, I think the actual scene is great, because more people can now make a living from running. More photographers can afford to specialize in running or sports than ever before. You can actually get paid for your craft now.

It also forces brands to be more innovative. When I look back at the running packs we started with compared to where we are now, that evolution would not have happened if the sport hadn’t grown. Everybody would have stuck to the same old shoes. I looked at the shoes I wore for my fastest marathon in 2018, basically with no sole. They were completely flat. If more brands and more people hadn’t entered the space, no one would have invested money into developing new things. 

I think growth is just part of life. And in running, especially trail running, I think it grows quite organically. It creates opportunities for people in the sport to have adventures and inspire others. People who complain about what’s happening now are often just not willing to adapt. Now there is such a wide spectrum to choose from. 

It’s the same in music. Back then, you were either a house DJ or a rock and roll DJ—there was no overlap. Now, through social media and the internet, there are infinite ways of consuming things and putting things out there. Because you can market things more easily, you don’t need the backing of a huge brand to make an impact. If you have a community, you can create something meaningful. All of that is definitely a benefit of the sport growing. And honestly, I don’t think you need to search for negative things, because eventually they get outweighed. It always depends on how you approach it. There are brands I really resonate with, and there are many brands I don’t resonate with because I don’t think they have honest intentions in the sport—they just want to buy into the hype. But I can control whether I support that or not.”

In a sport that is often deeply solitary, what does community represent for you?

“Without community, it would be really boring. Whenever I travel—for example, in Milan—I meet maybe 12 or 20 people I already knew through running. I don’t run with them every day, but when we get together, we share memories, experiences, and knowledge. Without that exchange, a lot would be missing. Because we’re human—we naturally seek community. 

Even if today it’s not always a physical community. I live outside Nuremberg, and there aren’t many people running around, so when I’m at home I’m very pro-solitude. But when I travel to races, I always find my people. And they usually share the same values, the same desires. I think because of the internet now, you can maintain that connection much more easily. Everybody blaming social media is probably just not using it the right way. For me, it’s mostly about staying in touch with people I can’t physically be with all the time, and sharing experiences with them. There’s a real beauty in that.”

This positive energy feels like part of your style, part of your way of running. Do you feel that running itself has become a creative act for you?

“Running has definitely become a way to express that positivity. I always connect it back to skateboarding. Back then, we filmed ourselves even when it was still difficult—you really had to cut tapes together to make a video. And it wasn’t because we were exceptionally good, but because we wanted to show our way of skating. I think I simply transferred that into running. I wanted to share where I run and how I dress with other people. Maybe because I’m so alone here in the woods, I needed some sort of connection. But it felt completely natural to me because we had always done that through skateboarding. We would meet up, go to a new city, film there, and cut a video together. Now it feels exactly the same.”

When you think beyond races and achievements, what do you hope to share about running in order to positively impact the culture?

“I hope to make people understand that they don’t have to stress so much. They don’t have to rush toward a marathon or consume things they don’t even like. For me, it’s always crazy when people leave negative comments about something, because they actually took the time to look at it. If I’m not interested in something, why would I consume it? Why would I spend time commenting on it? I think everybody should simply do what they want in running and in life. There’s no right way to dress for a marathon. There’s no right way to be in the mountains. If you feel comfortable wearing jeans and Nike Air Force 1s, who am I to judge you?

I think removing judgment and letting people express themselves is something I really care about. For me, everything developed organically. There was never a big plan behind it. It just kind of worked, and now I’m here. These days, I feel like a lot of people want to enter this space for the wrong reasons. But at the same time, it’s not my job to comment on that. They will figure it out—or they won’t. I can only speak from my own experience. And I’m always happy to share that.”